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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:22 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:51 pm
Posts: 3736
Location: Hong Kong
各位機友,

馬鞍山東風斜坡是我們最為喜愛的飛場亦都是玩滑翔傘飛友喜愛的場地,但我們都不是這個飛場的擁有者,所以我們要學識被此相攘,被此愛護,才能分享並安全地試用這個寶貴的天然資源。
昨天我們在馬鞍山與玩滑翔傘的朋友有多少口角和有多少火葯味!我想這是我們大家都不希望見到的!
在有限的空間去分享飛行本來就已經不是件容易解決的問題,我們需要在固定的100米航道範圍內飛行,他們需要有可起飛和降落的安全平地,在輕微和緩風速時他們需要靠近山坡飛行增取升力。本來這兩個不同的要求可互不相干,但由於地形關係,他們唯一可作定全升降的平地就在我們的航道不遠,往往起飛後就要經過我們的賽道,這就是問題的晶結!平時如果我們不是比賽,就算有數十隻飛機在天空上飛翔都不會有問題,因為我們的飛機可以隨時避開他們,但當我們比賽F3F時,飛機是需要在指定的一段時間內在賽道內來回飛行,問題出現如果此時他們要飛過我們的賽道!

有什麼方法可以解決這個問題呢?

當然我們可以與他們協商,互相合作,當我們的飛機一出進入賽道後滑翔傘就不要進入賽道附近,待我們飛機離開後給他們有充足的時間飛過,但這人維協商恐怕執行非常困難,況且會阻慢我們比賽的節奏,加上現在玩滑翔傘的朋友越益增加,這個辨法基本上實行困難重重!

哪麼可不可以跟他們商確把他們的升降地方移到我們飛場左邊近大金鐘的位置呢?我相信這個方案也不行,因為在左邊山坡基本上沒有一塊足夠大而且平坦無石的地方給他們安全降落。

哪麼我們可不可以稍移肉步,把我們的賽道移近到大金鐘那邊呢?這做法雖然未必能完全解決他們會飛過我們賽道的可能性,但起碼我們的賽道跟他們的升降地有一段頗長的距離,受互相影向的機會會較少。他們起飛後應該有足夠的斜坡面來回飛行增取高度後再飛去大金鐘或降落時有足夠空間給他們轉彎。

我曾經指出在近大金鐘那邊其實有一條頗直的斜坡面,是適合玩F3F比賽,這


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:46 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:14 am
Posts: 621
如果本星期是大風, 班傘佬都唔会揾命駁, 我地都無必要迫自已在強風下試新場及在Full Ballast下駁Landing呱.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:04 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:51 pm
Posts: 3736
Location: Hong Kong
Yeung wrote:
如果本星期是大風, 班傘佬都唔会揾命駁, 我地都無必要迫自已在強風下試新場及在Full Ballast下駁Landing呱.


We might have strong wind this weekend and enjoy ourselves, but what next if we continue to hold F3F competitions in Ma On Shan under weak to moderate wind condition?
For the interest of both parties, I strongly suggest that we should try the new course and relocate ourselves. It doesn't mean we are loosing our field to them. I would say as professional r/c glider pilots, we should be able to adapt and compete in any new flying fields, just as similar to the situation when we go overseas for competition in a totally new flying site.

I remembered years ago we have communicated with the HK Paraglider Association regarding safety rules for sharing our air space.

They have put up a regulation in their web
http://www.hkpa.net/article2.htm

I just want to extract some here:

Quote:
Paragliders will avoid flying in the zone immediately in front of the R/C launch at Shek O and Ma On Shan.

Both parties will aim to keep good separation at all times.

Both parties will aim to keep out of each others air-space thereby affording enough space to safely manoeuvre and enjoy ourselves.


They have thought about this and we should do our best to do the same.
In fact, Steve Yancy, the paraglider guy who helped C.M. and Ah So to navigate back safely last Sunday was hit by a model glider years ago, and he surely understood the danger this would be, and he works all the best to avoid this happening again and be friendly with us. I know there are some other unfriendly paraglider guys around, but we shouldn't turn ourselves to confrontation with them by all means. Remember, the incident of Law Wah, if there was no confrontation in the playground, he would not have come to this sad outcome.

Enjoy our airspace safely!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:31 pm
Posts: 741
Location: 沙田
其實星期日既情況係比較罕有﹐受颱風影響下﹐當日風弱﹐仲有D偏北。搞到D傘唔可以靠大金鐘向東南既坡面囉升力﹐所以就局住要係賽道前面囉升力。以我當日既觀察﹐其實絕大部份傘都係想降落﹐但飛到降落場果邊已經損失一定高度﹐唔夠高 U 番入去再降落﹐所以就再飛番入賽道希望囉高少少再試過。需知傘唔同模型飛機﹐唔可以隨便係前面既斜坡降落﹐當日風弱﹐傘速高﹐加上果邊既斜坡有石頭﹐咁樣做會好危險。呢個難處唔係飛傘既人未必可以理解。

Stanley 建議將賽道移近大今鐘﹐我個人認為可行性不大。以我係馬鞍山弱風下飛傘既經驗﹐由大金鐘到我地依家條賽道既位置係係弱風下升力最好既位置﹐我自己就好多時都係果度補夠高度至去降落。如果要搬賽道﹐我覺得索性同滑翔傘掉換位置較可行。其實弱風既時候﹐係有傘會選擇係我地果邊起飛。我自己都試過。但呢個安排只可以係弱風既情況下做。因為係強風下我地個位起傘會有危險。加上如果強風﹐D 傘都會過晒大金鐘﹐唔會係賽道前面飛黎飛去。


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:51 pm
Posts: 3736
Location: Hong Kong
Y.C.,

其實星期日既情況係時常發生,並非罕有!事實上有個別不負責任的傘佬莽固安全,時常固意飛入我們的賽道,在有風或無風的情況下都一樣做!
:evil:
你講了這麼多說話我都好明白,事實上我亦都好理解傘佬的難處,但你就無提議有什麼可行的
辨法!哪麼究竟是搬賽道好還是互換場地好呢?
在有限的資源去滿足各人的不同需要可不容易啊!

今日民航處來電,話有傘佬向他們投訴上星期日在馬鞍山有模型飛機對他們飛行安全造成影向,我聽了之後就真是氣憤不平!明明是那些不守規佢的傘佬,莽固生命安全,亂飛入我們比賽的賽道,我們的飛機在緊急情況下要立刻中斷賽事,盡一切能力去避開他們,現在他們還反過來巫告我們,真是豈有此理!
試想想我們比賽時只有一隻飛機在天空,而且飛行靠近斜坡,他們海闊天空,有許多空間可以飛行,但就偏偏要飛到我們的飛機處,還說是我們作出不安全飛行,有這些個別傘佬敗類,以後何去何從,我亦無話可說! :twisted: :cry: :cry:


Last edited by Stanley on Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 7:31 pm
Posts: 1027
Stanley wrote:

Quote:
以後何去何從,我亦無話可說!


Dear Chairman, official bearers and committee members,

I tried to keep my mouth shutted since Sunday, but after reading the mails and this thread, I cannot remain silent anymore.

What we have been doing at MOS, is putting the safety of anyone on the slope at the ulmost priority. Now, the unwise individual trying to kick us away from MOS. For the time being, you guys (committees) are in the position to safe guard our interest. This is one of the reasons of forming a club. The committee has the obligation to fight for the status quote arrangement and clarify the misunderstanding of CAD.
:!: :!:


Last edited by Ah Pong on Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 7:31 pm
Posts: 1027
:roll: :roll:

Dear all,

Although I am only an ordinary member, I am more than willing to join you guys to safe guard our interest.

:wink: :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 7:54 pm
Posts: 1660
Location: Tai Po, HK
Stanley wrote:
Y.C.,

其實星期日既情況係時常發生,並非罕有!


Stanley,

星期日既情況時常發生,係因為MOS時常都弱風!

YC 說得冇錯,我地條 F3F track 左邊,係傘佬在大金鍾攞高度嘅地區。在那邊飛F3F,比現在位置更差。

其實我地同傘佬共用呢個空間巳經係很多年嘅事。只要大家禮讓,已經可以安全地共同使用。

現實係我地啲 glider 嘅性能,比傘好得多。
出意外後,對當事人的危險性也比較低。
基於保護弱者的角度去看,
我們多讓路給傘,也是可以理解的。

今次事件應是個別傘佬,當天與我們的人在言語上產生不快,所導致的個別事件。
我們應把當天的情況,向CAD如實反影便可以了。

我們和傘佬都是飛行愛好者,像我們glider佬一樣,大部份都是友善的人。
大家不要對傘佬產生仇視!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:58 pm 
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Location: Hong Kong
我好明白Y.C.和阿麥所講的一切,傘佬都有他們的需要,在微風時要靠山飛行。我地比賽時長期霸住一段斜坡面對他們會造成極大不便。大部份傘佬都係好友善,我曾為他們著想,我亦都好想和他們溝通解決問題。

在未得知有人向民航處投訴之前,我已經提出要把賽道移遠,退一步,海闊天空,如果大家忍攘一步就可以減少磨擦,玩得開心!在馬鞍山飛滑翔機和滑翔傘的干擾問題,已經存在有好幾年,這幾年我都不斷思索,究竟有什麼可行的實則方法,減少干擾,提高雙方的安全?到目前為止我認為只有把賽道移遠才能切切實實做到互不相干的地步!移遠賽道起碼在他們起飛到達我們那邊時飛友都有足夠時間反應繼續完成賽事或Abort,唔係好似依傢咁,他們一出傘我地就要立即反應,控制唔好隻機,隨時撞埋去!我好失望這個提議竟然無機友有贊成。

哪麼你地有什麼更好的提議呀?什麼用無線電溝通協條,在對方一盆散沙,無風亂跳的情況下,跟本就無可能work!

有時我都唔係好明白我地呢班glider佬做咩咁執著,係都唔肯去常試新場!

你地知唔知現時傘會會長是那位仁兄,就係當日載住條女,係我地面前揚威燿武,語出驚人的那位傑哥!有飛友提出話要我地同傘會溝通溝通,我聽了之後心裡只有苦笑,是誰去民航處投訴,大家心


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