Hong Kong RC Sailplane Forum 香港滑翔機發燒友論壇

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 Post subject: Re: Motor Specification
PostPosted: 04 May 2005 11:56 pm 
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Joined: 12 Jan 2005 12:20 pm
Posts: 1012
Location: Shatin (Tai Wai)
BigYeung wrote:
To enable for a competitive racing, for the coming pylon race in June, I still prefer to limit the batteries at <=7.4V for Li and <=8.4V (7cell) for Ni. Motor spec must be 400 class or equiv. brushless motor.


Can anyone clarify during the pylon race, will racers equipped with 400 (380) motors be competed against racers with 400 (380) motors ? And brushless against brushless ? Or they will be mixed together during the race ?

Also brushless motors all come with complicated numbers (or even no spec at all), is there any specific restriction on which type of brushless motors can be installed during the race ?

Thanks !


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 05 May 2005 06:53 am 
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Joined: 26 Feb 2004 05:08 pm
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Location: Hong Kong
Good question! I don't think we have talked about it before. In my opinion the Speed 400 class are the stock brushed Speed 400 motor and all it's variance (brushed and brushless) that can be directly bolt-on replace.

In fact I don't think we need to be too strict to the motor used. The most important part of a power system is the battery. Say if the working time is 1 minute, then the role of the motor, prop, controller, etc is to effectively release all the battery energy in that 1 minute. So the challenge here is how to effectively convert all the battery energy into kinetic energy in a specific time. A big motor is not equivalent to a faster plane.

(Well, big motors are usually more efficient than small motors, brushless is usually more efficient than brushed. In this sense they mean a faster plane . . . .. )

Any other inputs?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 05 May 2005 07:53 pm 
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Joined: 26 Feb 2004 10:52 pm
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Location: Shatin
Stanley will put the rules onto web very soon, all he need now is time to put everything together and put it onto the web page.

As we will have many races per pilot on the racing date. If one race used up most of the battery power, the pilot may need many packs of batteries. We do not want the rich pilots win all the time so we may need to add a regulation to control this.

If 2 posts are 100m away, after running for 10 loops. How many % will the battery left? Can we use the same battery to run a second or third race? If any body has data on hand, please let me know so we can discuss whether we need to add some restriction to the batteries quantity.

We will try to make the rule as fair as possible, Money should not be the main issue, we should also consider pilot's strategy, control skill, Battery/Motor power management also.


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PostPosted: 05 May 2005 08:39 pm 

Joined: 02 Aug 2004 11:34 am
Posts: 309
Design of the aircraft, selection on propellers and flying approaches make the power consumption different even the same motor and battery are used.
If capacity is limited, or restriction being put on same battery pack have to fly x flights without re-charging, it will force the participants to look for high efficiency motors, excellent planes, extremely low resistance ESC & batteries -- FAR MORE EXPENSIVE and PROFESSIONAL!!!!
The more capacity the battery,the heavier the aircraft will be. Pilots are excellent to comprise for good outcomes.
To my opinion, restriction on 7.4V Li cell or 8.4V Ni Cells, motor class and aircraft size be good enough for fair contest.
It's up to participants' strategy and more flexible on top guns or sport guns to be used in this contest. One can choose to buy more battery packs or to re-charge used packs on site.
May be separating brush and brushless into 2 class can be more fair. However, I don't object on running brush & BL in 1 class in view of pressing duration on the contest day.


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PostPosted: 05 May 2005 09:21 pm 

Joined: 02 Aug 2004 11:34 am
Posts: 309
For battery recharge on-site, usually it will cause the delay on keeping the schedule of the run down. Usually a 8.4V NiCell charge up will take 15-20mins while 7.4V LiCell may take around 1hrs. Thus, participants have to take up their strategy to account for whether their plane can return for flight in the following round with sufficient prepartion time.
When a participant is assigned to the group, once the group is called up to run the round, if the participant cannot start the round immediately, he/she will be considered as NOT started or DNF and should not wait for him/her. Re-joining the round in following groups will also make the race complicated and may cause difficulty on frequency arrangement.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 06 May 2005 03:49 am 
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Joined: 26 Feb 2004 03:51 pm
Posts: 3626
Location: Hong Kong
Finally, the proposed electric pylon racing rules are drafted. Here it is:
http://www.hkrcss.org/E-PylonRules.pdf

Basically, it is non-timing event, very similar to MOM. Should be good fun!

Question about the battery:
In the proposed racing arrangement, each pilot needs only to compete SIX races to win the contest.
So, assuming 2 races per battery, he only needs 3 batteries which should be managable.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 10 May 2005 08:54 am 
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Joined: 26 Feb 2004 03:51 pm
Posts: 3626
Location: Hong Kong
我隻電機搞掂啦!配搭喺:

Hacker B20 15L Brushless Motor (不過喺大陸冒牌個隻)
Jeti Advance 18-3P 電變 (不過都喺大陸冒牌個隻)
4.5x4.1 槳
Thunder Power 7.4v 2100mAH LiPo

各位高手,咁嘅setting 夠夠跑呀?

Image
Image
Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 10 May 2005 06:31 pm 

Joined: 16 Jun 2004 02:26 pm
Posts: 4
Hi stanley,
Need to make a air intake and outlet for motor and battery colding. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 May 2005 08:02 am 
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004 09:09 pm
Posts: 49
Location: WongTaiSin
Your plane and the gear are so hot!!!!!!!!!!! :o
beware your power plug to be too hot!!! :twisted:


:P :P :P :P :P

MingFai


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 13 May 2005 05:19 am 
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Joined: 26 Feb 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 587
Location: Shatin
今個星期日要到南丫島計劃如何在石地上固定一支30呎長杆,各位如有什麼高見,請多多指教。


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 13 May 2005 06:23 am 
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Joined: 26 Feb 2004 05:31 pm
Posts: 741
Location: 沙田
ken wrote:
今個星期日要到南丫島計劃如何在石地上固定一支30呎長杆,各位如有什麼高見,請多多指教。


個度係石地﹐要用油壓鑽或石屎槍至郁到佢﹐要搵做三行既朋友幫手啦﹗又或者搵搭棚師傅都得.....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 13 May 2005 07:09 am 
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Joined: 26 Feb 2004 03:51 pm
Posts: 3626
Location: Hong Kong
唔好亂嚟呀!個日會有啲南丫島鄉議會嘅議員來參觀,如果我哋用把鑽鑽爛個地,我惗以後我哋我無機會再去啦!

可唔可以用啲營釘加大塊石頭來固定個三腳架呀?

啊Ken,還有啊George提議機師可否站在賽道中央比賽,由於两邊距差不多,機師比較容易撑握。
換句話說我們需要造两組灯,人手方面都應該可以應付。


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 13 May 2005 09:33 am 

Joined: 15 Apr 2005 02:03 am
Posts: 46
Location: kc
Stanley wrote:
我隻電機搞掂啦!配搭喺:

Hacker B20 15L Brushless Motor (不過喺大陸冒牌個隻)
Jeti Advance 18-3P 電變 (不過都喺大陸冒牌個隻)
4.5x4.1 槳
Thunder Power 7.4v 2100mAH LiPo

各位高手,咁嘅setting 夠夠跑呀?

Image
Image
Image
:lol:用冒牌貨係唔值得推廣


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 13 May 2005 10:14 am 

Joined: 15 Apr 2005 02:03 am
Posts: 46
Location: kc
ken wrote:
今個星期日要到南丫島計劃如何在石地上固定一支30呎長杆,各位如有什麼高見,請多多指教。
:lol: (1)平放地上 (2)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 13 May 2005 06:36 pm 
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Joined: 26 Feb 2004 07:54 pm
Posts: 1660
Location: Tai Po, HK
Stanley wrote:
唔好亂嚟呀!個日會有啲南丫島鄉議會嘅議員來參觀,如果我哋用把鑽鑽爛個地,我惗以後我哋我無機會再去啦!

可唔可以用啲營釘加大塊石頭來固定個三腳架呀?

啊Ken,還有啊George提議機師可否站在賽道中央比賽,由於两邊距差不多,機師比較容易撑握。
換句話說我們需要造两組灯,人手方面都應該可以應付。


不如用幾個氫氣球,加 D 30呎長既線啦!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 May 2005 06:43 am 

Joined: 24 Sep 2004 11:59 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Hong Kong
ken wrote:
今個星期日要到南丫島計劃如何在石地上固定一支30呎長杆,各位如有什麼高見,請多多指教。


Ken 哥,

我話最好搵幾個高佬騎膊馬企兩邊,搖旗又得、比手勢又得,你認為如何 :D :D :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 May 2005 06:43 am 

Joined: 24 Sep 2004 11:59 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Hong Kong
ken wrote:
今個星期日要到南丫島計劃如何在石地上固定一支30呎長杆,各位如有什麼高見,請多多指教。


Ken 哥,

我話最好搵幾個高佬騎膊馬企兩邊,搖旗又得、比手勢又得,你認為如何 :D :D :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 May 2005 06:44 am 

Joined: 24 Sep 2004 11:59 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Hong Kong
ken wrote:
今個星期日要到南丫島計劃如何在石地上固定一支30呎長杆,各位如有什麼高見,請多多指教。


Ken 哥,

我話最好搵幾個高佬騎膊馬企兩邊,搖旗又得、比手勢又得,你認為如何 :D :D :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 May 2005 08:40 am 
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Joined: 26 Feb 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 587
Location: Shatin
小小克哥, Henry哥, Mak,
多謝各位的提議,我正在考慮各方案的可行性。但氫氣球方法有風時行不通。高佬騎膊馬的方法又會太危險。左右長短杆的方法又要太多人手和太多杆。 Stanley又不准我用鑽孔機。本來很簡單的事情,現在卻變得困難了。 假如比賽場地在長洲,可能我們再不需要用長杆了。


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 May 2005 05:39 pm 
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Joined: 28 Jul 2004 06:51 pm
Posts: 509
ken哥,
可以用三枝八至十呎長竹杆做一個三腳架,再用三枝
竹杆在下面做個三角形地台,然後用D重物(如沙包之類)責實佢,咁樣應該可行。


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 17 May 2005 06:03 pm 
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Joined: 26 Feb 2004 03:51 pm
Posts: 3626
Location: Hong Kong
上星期日在南丫島試我隻電機都幾滿意,國產摩打和電變都跑得


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 Post subject: About the e-pylon race
PostPosted: 18 May 2005 01:17 am 
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Joined: 12 Jan 2005 12:20 pm
Posts: 1012
Location: Shatin (Tai Wai)
Recent chats with some master to share ...

1. Flying distance = 1 km (100m x 10 legs), which means 5 laps per race ? (p.s. some master wonder it's 10 laps)

2. In the event of a cut, e.g. make a left turn before passing Pole B, is it allow to turn the pylon racer 180 degree on the track; flying in clockwise direction; head back to Pole B and turn again ? (which may create head-to-head collision)

Ah ya ya ... very sad ... my lovely Triffik crashed and completely broken last Saturday - plane gone, new brushless gone, new LiPo burnt with fire + smoke - while I've cleared up the environment, hoping this won't happen to other pilots and please always be very careful for possible LiPo explosion when picking up the crashed planes ! Good luck !

By the way, shall we consider to wear some safety hats during the race ? You know those pylon racers will be flying extremely fast, when 3 racers are flying, little air crash (or R/C malfunction) may cause a hard crash into the ground ... when the pilots' eye balls are concentrating on his racer, he may not anticipate a lost control racer is heading towards him, or even so, our legs may not be fast enough to escape. Don't want to be -ve and believe safety race will make everyone happy :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 18 May 2005 07:43 am 
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Joined: 26 Feb 2004 03:51 pm
Posts: 3626
Location: Hong Kong
With constructive comments from fellow pilots, we modified the arrangement of the race course as shown:
http://www.hkrcss.org/E-pylon_rules.html

The changes are:

Base A is moved to the right side of the race course

Base B is moved to the left side of the race course

The rationale behind this move is: the inner turn in Pole A (original arrangement) is too dangerous to the pilots because most planes tend to have a tendency to dive after the turn so it would directly head onto the pilots area. In the new arrangement, an outer loop turn is performed in Base A i.e., away from the pilots. The judges in the modified Base B can be located far away from the pole so the thread of inner turn to them can be minimized.

There is a safety line of at least 20m between the pilots and the centre line of the course. Also it is recommended that pilots should wear a helmet. HKRCSS will try to arrange three yellow helmets (those used in construction site) for this purpose.

I also drew a picture of the course setup for the Lamma Island site. Please let me know if you have further comments.

Cheers

Stanley


Last edited by Stanley on 18 May 2005 08:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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