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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2007 07:05 pm 
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I have preliminarily created a league table for the F3F races in 2007. Currently we have only two races. If we are lucky to hold 12 races in year 2007, we will have a more accurate result.
By the way, we haven't really discussed the details in computing the score yet. For example, how many best races for each pilot are used to compute the final score? Any idea? We will make a decision at the forecoming HKRCSS meeting in March.

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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2007 11:04 pm 
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Just a suggestion, what if simply adding up the F3F average scores for each pilots like table below :idea: this method can capture the "relative distance" among the pilots per race - not just by ranking of each race, and also minimize the issue of same ranking score, for example, if

Pilot A got #1, #2, #3, #2 and
Pilot B got #2, #1, #2, #3

then eventually both Pilot A & Polot B will get the same amount if by ranking score

The ranking by average scores will be slightly different from Stanley's compilation. Will let HKRCSS to finalize that ...

Mak 985.40 + 910.30 = 1895.70 R1
Stanley 926.68 + 920.79 = 1847.47 R2
Wai 933.86 + 909.68 = 1843.54 R3
Pong 860.41 + 935.77 = 1796.18 R5
Fai 919.59 + 879.49 = 1799.08 R4
Kin 924.67 + 814.85 = 1739.52 R6
CM 916.20 + 786.95 = 1703.15 R7
Wing 851.74 + 843.81 = 1695.55 R8
Johnson 815.14 + 844.87 = 1660.01 R9
Angus DNA + 903.06 = 903.06 R11
So 876.85 + DNA = 876.85 R12
Allan 721.77 + 778.43 =1500.20 R10

Remarks :

1. 1st figure = HJP score on Jan, 2nd figure = MOS score on Feb)

2. May be add up top 3 or top 4 average scores for each pilot per league


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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2007 11:07 pm 
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Wing, agree to you :)

此計分會唔會有漏動呢?

1, 對於一班平均實力的參賽者,他們的時間/分數應很接近,但此計分法一定把分數平均分佈於0至1之間,把參賽者的相對實力排除。

2, 20人參賽,跑第尾得0.05分,2人參賽,跑第尾有0.5分!


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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2007 11:40 pm 
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Hi Stanley

I'd suggest the normalization as the official report that I send to you or Wing's method.

Here is the normalization result proposed in my official report -

Pilot Match Match Total
K. Y. Mak 1000 973 1973
Stanley Chan 940 984 1924
Chan Kwok Wai 948 972 1920
Choi Wing Pong 873 1000 1873
Au Chi Fai 933 940 1873
Cheung Wan Kin 938 871 1809
C.M. Cheng 930 841 1771
Wing Wong 864 902 1766
Johnson Yeung 827 903 1730
Allan Yeung 732 832 1564
Angus Lee 0 965 965
So Kwok Ying 890 0 890


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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2007 12:03 am 

Joined: 09 Sep 2004 04:57 pm
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嘩!!好似賽F 1 賽車咁!!好玩呀!不個希望D 日期夾得好D 可以多D人參賽就更加公平好玩喇.都唔知點解過幾曰又好好風,真吹脹!!!!!


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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2007 12:19 am 
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Well, good suggestion!
I think Augus's suggestion of normalizing the average score is a good idea. Can you guys think of any pros and cons for this scheme?

How many personal best rounds should we use to calculate the final score? Initially, I would suggest one half of the total number of races in a year.

Also, do we still need to hold VR qualifying races for the VR2008 entry? Or to use the league result as a base score, on top of it add the VRQ score, or just the league is sufficient?


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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2007 11:40 am 
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Stanley wrote:
I would suggest one half of the total number of races in a year.

Also, do we still need to hold VR qualifying races for the VR2008 entry? Or to use the league result as a base score, on top of it add the VRQ score, or just the league is sufficient?


Stanley,
I support your suggestion.
Since there will be 12 races in a year, we can count the best 6 results for each pilot. One more best result will be counted for those who have the same scores.

No need for a VRQ anymore.

However, if we want to add more fun to the game, the race before the VR seletion can carry more weight, so that less qualified pilots can have a last chance to catch up.
How about 60/40 or 70/30 !


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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2007 12:29 pm 
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Agree with Mak and how about refer Ah Mak's proposal as Option A :idea:

Also some ideas to share below :idea: Given we have recently formalize the racing calendar and we all hope there will be new pilots joining this meaningful monthly events - hopefully more new pilots joining us in League 2, see if we want consolidate the VR2008 qualifying races into 2007 League 2, for example :

Option B – Entire League 2 as VR2008 qualification (Personally, I prefer this)

Top 3 pilots as concluded at the end of League 2 will represent HKSAR for VR2008

Benefit: More even measurement of pilot’s performance and minimize the issue of VRQ call off due to weather issues

Option C – Schedule 2 VRQ within League 2

Assume 6 races in League 2, say pre-schedule 4th & 5th as VRQ-1 & VRQ-2, then

Top 3 pilots as concluded by VRQ-1 & VRQ-2 will represent HKSAR for VR2008

And there will be separate award to top 3 pilots for League 2 (i.e. also counting results of VRQ-1 & VRQ-2 as well)

Benefit: More flexible for those pilots interest to join VR but not able to attend most of the League 2 races

In case we go ahead with HK F3F Open 2007, given that will be an international or regional event, better handle results separately from League 2 and VRQ – in this case, League 2 may be suspended one (say on Nov or Dec) to avoid schedule overlap with HK F3F Open 2007


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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2007 01:33 pm 

Joined: 02 Aug 2004 11:34 am
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My personal experience on determining the members for a team qualification is to keep it as simple and unique as possible.
As there are allowable drop-outs available in the league, it may not be necessary to establish a 2nd league. Let every participants qualify together. With the final league results, the tops can decide to go for VR2008 or not within a buffer period. If not going, let the next to replace.
Qualifying rules must be clearly stated in advance. Once fixed and the league started, NO CHANGE unless they are inapplicable. IT MUST BE KEPT STUBBORN, NO redefinition! Keep the good suggestion for next year!!!
1) No. of best races to count. e.g. 60%(round up) of the races held for the league - When 11 races would have been held by HKRCSS, every contesters will count for the results from his/her best 7 races. If 5 races could be completed in the year by HKRCSS, then it will count on the best 3 races on every contester.
It won't be unfair to late comers to the league as long as the pilot knows how many races being available to struggle with. If one joins when there are only 4 races out of 12 scheduled races to go. Base on e.g. 60%, 7 best race results should be counted. But he/she can only make possible for 4 race results. One can determine to join or not. Weight factor will impose the complexity and must be stated in advance. It should be avoid to let anyone make advantage on it.
2) Definition of qualifying result for each race of the league – As suggested by Angus, normalized score points on each race and sum the results of the entitled best races should be fine.


Last edited by BigYeung on 06 Feb 2007 05:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2007 02:39 pm 
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Yeung,

1) I agreed with you on making it simple.
However, variable number of race to be counted is too complicated.
Lets have a fixed number of races. No matter how many races have been held, his best 6 will be counted
If any pilot couldn't complete 6 races. Hard luck !

2) agreed.

BTW, Viking Race used to be held on September. VR team should be formed a few months earlier, which might not fit into any so called league.
so, we should count only races before the VR selection date. Not by league.


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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2007 11:26 pm 
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I agree with Mak that we should use a fixed number of races for the calculation, otherwise it will be too complicated and more confusion later. Perhaps, we can set the number to 6.

Personally, I would prefer to use the league result as well as a VRQ race to select HK team. Since Viking Race is generally held in Sept. and considering that the team needs time to prepare and make travel arrangement, I would propose the VRQ race be held in Feb or March (good wind also). We can select a scheduled league race in Feb or March also as VRQ race instead of having an extra race. The final score may be computed with weighting 60% from league and 40% from that VRQ race. For example, to determine the HK team for VR2008, we use 2007 league result plus to pick a race in March in 2008 league as a VRQ race. I think this arrangement gives a good compromise.


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PostPosted: 08 Feb 2007 12:33 am 
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Originally, I plan to have League 1 and League 2 both cover 6 months. Best score in 3 matches out of 6 will be counted. Pilots with a poor start or new comers can restart the league after July.

If this league serves as VRQ, it is preferable to make one league for whole year so that league leaders at year end can enrole in the next VR. I'd suggest counting the best 6 matches in this case.


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PostPosted: 08 Feb 2007 12:40 am 
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Angus, I think two leagues are too much. In fact, I believe even though we schedule 12 races in a year, I would expect only 8 or 9 can be completed due to weather and other practical reasons.


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PostPosted: 08 Feb 2007 12:21 pm 
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Apart from two leagues in 2007 vs one single league on 2007 ...

See if we also want finalize the approach for 2007 speed man 速男 award as well :idea: Say

1. Simply by fastest annual record in 2007

2. Number of fastest records from all 2007 matches, example below :

Pilot A got 4 times of speed man (with fastest annual record of 40 sec)

Pilot B got 3 times of speed man (even with fastest annual record of 38 sec)

Then Pilot A will get the annual 速男 speed man award

Any preference :?:


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 Post subject: Want more fun ?
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2007 12:31 pm 
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Just think of making the 2007 league more interesting & fun (you know Ah Kin’s recent depression :? ), see if interested to introduce some more awards like:

"Thousand points" award or "Gold coins” award (like collect a gold coin for every win) – simply count all matches in 2007

Match 1 (1000 pts) – Mak (4), Kin (1), Fai (1), CM (1) : Really cool for 1000 pts x 4 :!:

Match 2 (1000 pts) – Stanley (1), Kolo Wai (1), Pong (2), Angus (1), Fai (1), Johnson (1) : More even spread 8)

like this (as illustration) ...

4 gold coins : Mak
2 gold coins : Fai, Pong
1 gold coin : Kin, CM, Kolo Wai, Stanley, Angus, Johnson : Ah Kin you are here :o

Not necessary to display this at the end of each match (for reducing administration work), but conclude at the final match of 2007

Any tangible award ?! Certificate, trophy, plus depending on how we want to make this interesting la :idea:

May be auto elect for next year F3F organizer ... or buy everyone dim sum meal in 2008 league kickoff ... or carrying our planes up to the slope ... or you guys to propose more dirty ideas :idea:

Just an idea for more fun and no worry if don't want proceed with this !


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 Post subject: Re: Want more fun ?
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2007 03:38 pm 
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Wing wrote:
"Thousand points" award or "Gold coins” award (like collect a gold coin for every win) –
like this (as illustration) ...

4 gold coins : Mak
2 gold coins : Fai, Pong
1 gold coin : Kin, CM, Kolo Wai, Stanley, Angus, Johnson : Ah Kin you are here :o
!


GOLD COINS :D :D :D
Image

:lol: I dodn't know one can get rich flying F3F :!:
and I have 4 Gold Coin on record already :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2007 07:48 pm 
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:roll: :roll:

Hi guys,

We recently have some arguments over the VRQ. Please refer to above that what you've said, and disregard what the current result (as we have another 3 to 4 matches to be held). Then post your preference, please.

By the way, for the match in NOV, are we using the result of HK open as the 11th match, instead of holding another match on the 2nd sunday??

Regards,


Last edited by Ah Pong on 07 Sep 2007 09:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 07 Sep 2007 09:07 pm 
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Stanley wrote:
... The final score may be computed with weighting 60% from league and 40% from that VRQ race. For example, to determine the HK team for VR2008, we use 2007 league result plus to pick a race in March in 2008 league as a VRQ race...


Hi,

I think the decision on VRQ has not yet been finalized in our previous discussion. Thus, I'd suggest following Stanley's proposal of league result plus one VRQ race, said Race 1 or 2 in 2008.

Moreover, I still prefer the hit-and-go strategy for race day in order to catch the good wind as I mention in the previous decision.
http://www.rcsail.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1023&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=46&sid=d045327e7a4a080a573aa6ed95e925f1

However, if a fixed rule is deemed necessary, I'd propose the 2nd Sunday which can be postponed once to said 3rd or 4th Sunday depending on other HKRCSS activities. I understand that postpone may introduce inconvenience to some pilots. In fact, I don't expect all pilots to have 100% attendance. Inevitably, some classmates may skip a few lessons but it will not be significant to the final score because we count the best 6 match results only. Personally, I skip 1.5 lesson but I still feel happy when I see others flying well during my absent.

BTW, it is a good idea to use the HK Open at league result for November since we should be quite exhausted after the long 3-day match.


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PostPosted: 07 Sep 2007 11:40 pm 
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唔係呀 ! 又講返轉頭?

原本話用個年度賽,作為VR既出賽權。
依傢走左一大半先至又話要 VRQ ?

VRQ既問題係比重集中係一兩日既比賽,


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PostPosted: 12 Sep 2007 10:10 pm 
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In order to avoid further argument on the VR2008 qualification issue, we have discussed this issue last time we met in Ma On Shan and formally agreed on the following resolutions:

1. VR2008 qualification is solely depending on the result of 2007 HK F3F league. Therefore, no qualifying race for VR2008 will be held! The top three pilots in the 2007 HK F3F league will be automatically qualified for representing Hong Kong in VR2008. For selecting HK teams for future VR races, however, we shall discuss in the next committee meeting for a scheme which may utilize both the results of HK league and VR qualifying races.
2. For the issue about the policy on re-scheduling F3F league race due to bad weather, we agreed on a simple rule that the cancelled race can be re-scheduled only once normally at the next weekend of the original schedule date. In case if the re-scheduled race is cancelled again, no further re-scheduling is allowed and the race will be formally ticked out from the league table.
3. The 2007 league race in November will not be needed. Instead, the results of the local pilots in the Hong Kong F3F Open to be held between 2 to 4 Nov. will be used for scoring the November league results.


Any other comment if I didn’t put it right?


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PostPosted: 13 Sep 2007 07:22 am 
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8) 8)

Stanley, you missed a point:

年度賽成績 = 計個人最高既6個分數.

Regards,


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PostPosted: 13 Sep 2007 02:04 pm 
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Ah Pong wrote:
8) 8)

Stanley, you missed a point:

年度賽成績 = 計個人最高既6個分數.

Regards,


I thought this was already resolved long time ago!


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